Message #1448

From: Melinda Green <>
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Social dream
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 12:50:39 -0800


I’m glad that you are taking the lead on this subject because these log
files are the true model/document/heart of these puzzles. Various
programs that let users view and edit these files will come and go but
it would be truly wonderful if we can standardize on this core issue. I
like everything I’ve see so far in the discussion and I would like to
pose one additional question which is how well can we also support other
dimensional puzzles as well as flat and hyperbolic spaces? IOW, I would
like to know just how good or bad the fit will need to be in order to
support all of the puzzles that we have already created. I wouldn’t want
to do it if it required ugly kludges but I’m sure that everyone would
agree that it would certainly be a truly lovely dream to retrofit our
existing puzzles to support a single "Grand Unified" twisty puzzle log
file format if it can be done in a natural way. Of course it would be
nice if the files ended up being human readable but that’s not an
important goal because a simple read-only log file viewer can always be
written later. I would much rather have an unreadable format that covers
all twisty puzzles than to have several readable but incompatible formats.


On 2/22/2011 10:56 AM, Andrey wrote:
> Okay, let’s write fractions of full turn: 1/2,2/3,2/5,37/100 etc. It’s universal (in 4D puzzles) and not a big problem for programs.
> So twist record will look like 15:23:2/3:8 .
> To enumerate axes of the set we can select some coordinate system (that is natural for tesseract, 24-cell and duoprisms, and we can select something for 5-cell and 120-cell), get vectors of length 1 in directions of all axes, sort them in by w coordinate, then by z, by y and at last by x, and select the last (maximal) vector as 0, next as 1 and so on (for vectors greater than (0,0,0,0)). It may be difficult for human, but easy for the program.
> Andrey
> — In, "Andrey"<andreyastrelin@…> wrote:
>> I thought about usage of degrees (72, 120, 90,…) but it will not work for douprisms. Actually I want to have rational number there, but it’s more easy to write their common denominator is the head (near the set description) and show only numerators of the angle in all twists. We may write D=360 for all puzzles other than douprisms.
>> Or you want to write denominators only? Then again we’ll need two records for 144-deg rotation… Not good when we can select format with one record for every twist of the cell/face/edge/vertex…
>> Andrey
>>> But if I’m reading right, you are suggesting a 180-degree rotation on the
>>> 120-cell puzzle would be angle=30 (60/2). So the nature of the puzzle does
>>> seem to affect how the same twist angle is recorded. It feels like it’d be
>>> nicer if the recording of angles did not have this kind of dependency.
>>> seeya,
>>> Roice
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