Message #310

From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Macros and TIME
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 02:36:02 -0700

Hello Remi,

Yes, you are definitely an opinion force but a very welcome one. You
have helped prod me into motion, stimulated Roice into doing the 5D
puzzle, and seem to have created an entire group of Polish enthusiasts
on your own. I also would love to hear from more people on the list but
I know that lots of people are too shy to post but that everyone is
interested in the subject.

I understand your mixed feelings about quick macro moves for speed
solving. There doesn’t seem to be any reason not to offer fast as well
as instant speeds for macro as well as normal moves though you may want
to restrict their use in speed competition rules for all the reasons you
described.

I have no problem adding all sorts of helpful solving tools to the
program but it does make me wonder about where this is going. I could
imagine someone eventually creating a sort of super macro built from
macros on top of macros such that once a large set of reference stickers
are identified, the cube would essentially solve itself. If you create
and use such a super macro, then did you really solve the cube? In one
way I think that you did but that such a solution shouldn’t be compared
with solutions that don’t use macros.

I find it very exciting that you may soon add hyper speed cubing to the
official speed solving competitions! I expect that such an exhibition
could generate quite a bit of new interest in our little puzzle. I
suggest that you propose holding two categories of contests: One that
allows macros, and one that doesn’t. I would allow fast but not instant
animations in both categories. The main reason for not allowing instant
moves is simply to make the sport more interesting to watch but also to
create incentives to improve the algorithms.

I am also ready to attempt to hold the very first 4D speed solving
contest over YIM when you have at least 3 total people ready to try.
-Melinda

thesamer@interia.pl wrote:
> Hello M.!
>
> I have discussed with Michal one more thing with macros -> TIME.
>
> In linux version there are very very quick twists so macro (even with 100
> moves) takes only moment.
>
> In windows version cube is twisting very nicely but without much speed. This
> is good because the effects during twisting are beautiful… but in
> hyperSPEEDsolving it could be the problem.
>
> Ok. First I fought that’s fine. Everybody (to have good time) will have to
> find shortest algorithm for any situation… And this can help a lot -> new
> solutions!, new ideas! You will no loose the contact with cube (I really
> don’t know how to do some algorithms because I forgot how they look like, I
> know where they are on macros list and this is all)
>
> Algorithm with 100 moves will take 10 sec
> Algorithm with 10 moves will take 1 sek
>
> Why lose so much twists and time if there is shorter solution?!
>
> To be good in hyperspeedsolving, you have to be good in algorithms or maybe
> even think new way of solution…
>
> (Btw, Noel do you think that your method is quick? How fast can you be with
> your method? (sub 20 min. with Roice method on macros from linux). Could I
> see your log from 3^4?)
>
> ———-
>
> Michal was surrending the other side.
>
> Now I do not know what to think. Maybe there should be (as Michal suggested)
> "speed option" which make all macros timeless (click on macro and there is
> instantly whole effect, even when you have 100 twist in that macro -> look
> in 5D).
>
> "It’s hyperspeedsolving not hypershortestsolving" he said and was a little
> right.
>
> Nevertheless I’m a little bit worried that timeless macros will stop
> development… That basic one… During few years we had only Roice method
> (which is the most appopriate for speedsolving in my opinion), few voices of
> Layer by Layer method and Noel method…(the last one gave us very nice
> results on 4^4 and 5^4).
>
> I have macros for almost every situation. I could go in diffrent way during
> the solving. I could start with 4C, next do 3C and finish with 2C (I
> have/had macros that only operates/operated on single kind of pieces but I
> know a little/or nothing about how they really look like). I don’t know is
> that what is all about in cubing. Push/say a "wish" and have result…
> that’s fine.I like macros and I think it’s the only way of solving
> hypercubes on championships. BUT there sould be difference between macro
> with 500 moves and macro with 10 moves. Here is the way where people can
> earn for title "master of hypercubing"…
>
> I find this problem intresting.
>
> Lately I was asked with Michal to wrote down some kind of relgulations for
> hypercubing contest (during championships in Poland it will be talk with Ron
> von Bruchen). Unfortunatelly I won’t be there… Anyway -> In next year we
> want to do that kind of contest! And we are serious about it :-)
>
>
> That’s all, maybe others should give theirs opinion (I have impression that
> lately I’m the main "opinion force" here, no one even said a word about
> macros, etc ;D)
>
> Hear you soon,
> Remi D.