Message #1681

From: Roice Nelson <>
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MPUlt v0.2 is ready
Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 10:46:31 -0500

Hi Matt,

I believe RT stands for "ridge turning" (see this
Don). It is a nicer term than "face", which can require a lot of
context to avoid ambiguity since it is overused. I think it would be
beneficial to update the 3^4 solution to use the term "ridge", to help
encourage us to lower our overloading of the meaning of "face".


On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 2:22 AM, Matthew Galla <> wrote:

> Andrey,
> This is quite an amazing program! I have not had enough time to do a
> serious attempt of any of the puzzles but all the 4D ones look great! I’m a
> little confused by your rendering of the 5D and 6D puzzles but I will get to
> those later :)
> As I have previously indicated, I am most excited by the cell-turning
> 24Cell! I already have my solve order and algorithms figured out for the
> whole puzzle and I will hopefully be able to attempt a solve by this coming
> weekend. I have a few comments:
> -There are multiple pieces in the 24 Cell that are not unique. This is GOOD
> (and arguably more correct than not) and I am happy to have this version,
> but my concern is that the program may not recognize a state as solved if
> two identical pieces are flipped. Have you accounted for this? (I don’t want
> to finish a solve only to have the program say I’m not done ;) )
> -Would it be possible to add a piece/location finding feature? I see you
> have the shift-right click "highlighting" feature and that is certainly a
> good way to identify pieces but it’s a little awkward to use. A suggestion
> to improve it a little is to allow shift-right click on a color that is
> already white to undo the white coloring. (This way, you could hover over a
> single spot and quickly flash back and forth as you look over the rest of
> the puzzle, allowing you to very easily see which pieces belong in that face
> by spotting the flashing)
> -Is there a way to zoom in and out? I notice that the "View Angle" slider
> bar seems to achieve this, but it is a little awkward to constantly go to
> the slider bar. Could this be assigned to either a Ctrl-click+drag or
> perhaps the mouse wheel?
> -Could you add a feature that allows for an automatic view orientation to
> put a selected cell in the center (like Magic120Cell). I wouldn’t even mind
> if there was no animation for this, but I find it very awkward to manipulate
> the puzzle with right-click+drag.
> -the deepcut 24 Cell puzzle isn’t deepcut ;)
> -you have a puzzle under CubeBased called 4D_RT: This puzzle is actually
> quite neat, and I can’t believe I didn’t think of it before. Congratulations
> on not letting this puzzle slip by unnoticed as I did. Two questions: 1.What
> does the ‘R’ in 4D_RT mean? (assuming the ‘T’ means turning) 2.Could you
> make the 24 and 16 cell equivalents? :D I can draw a picture of a cell if
> you need it, but you seem to be quite good at figuring them out yourself so
> I won’t insult your intelligence with that :) (they would have a pretty
> crowded view wouldn’t they? Perhaps it is too much… :( )
> - (idea/suggestion) It is actually possible to make a subgroup puzzle of
> the cell-turning 24cell puzzle BY ONLY ALLOWING 120 DEGREE FACE TURNS AND
> 180 DEGREE CORNER TURNS. No 90 degree corner turns and no edge turns of any
> kind. Among other things, this will divide the 96 2C central face pieces
> into 3 orbits of 32 each. This puzzle would be completely different from and
> most likely significantly harder than the standard cell-turning 24Cell. It
> occurred to me that it would probably pretty easy to implement if you
> already have a working cell-turning 24Cell so you can add one more puzzle to
> the list :) I think you can also do a similar thing with cell turning 8cells
> (rotations around corners and 180 degree rotations around faces ONLY) and
> cell turning 16-cells (edge turns ONLY). In fact, you could probably even
> make one of these "subgroup" puzzles from that interesting 4D_RT puzzle
> (which thinking about it really should be called face-turning while all the
> other puzzle should be called cell-turning). If you picture the moving parts
> of the puzzle as flattened rectangular prisms, only 180 degree rotations
> about any axis perpendicular to a face are allowed (as is 2 axes are already
> restricted to 180 degrees, but to make this subgroup puzzle you would have
> to restrict the third as well)
> The complaints/concerns/(suggestions) listed here are only minor, and I
> believe the functionality of it is good enough to support a solve as is.
> This weekend! :)
> Overall a very nice program!!!!!! I agree with schuma, the version number
> definitely deserves to be higher
> Ed: The "save as" and "open" features are working my fine but you have to
> play with the camera controls after opening a file. Use "open" and then
> adjust the "Face Shrink" bar and your saved puzzle will magically appear
> from nowhere! ;)
> -Matt Galla
> On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Eduard <> wrote:
>> Wow!
>> All is perfect!
>> Even "save" and "save as" are working.
>> Restarting the program opens the "saved" puzzle.
>> How do I reach a "saved as" puzzle? I tried without succes with "open".
>> Ed
>> — In, "Andrey" <andreyastrelin@…> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> > Next version of "MPUltimate" is uploaded to
>> .
>> > What is new:
>> > 1) bug with click to the mirrored face is fixed;
>> > 2) couple of search features is there:
>> > 2a) Shift-Left click in the sticker highlights all stickers of the same
>> piece (now it doesn’t work for stickers of the puzzle core and for stickers
>> that are connected "inside" the puzzle). Highligting is moving with the
>> sticker during twists and macro applications (only in cell-turn 4D puzzles
>> :( ) and I’ve found it very useful for macros design.
>> > 2b) Shift-Right click in the sticker temporary (till next
>> Shift-Right)changes color of this sticker and all stickers from its cell to
>> white. Shift-Right in empty space restores colors of all cells.
>> > 3) Single-click macros for 4D are ready. To create macro you should
>> Ctrl-Alt-Left click a point in some cell. Better to select a point close to
>> the vertex - cell, face and vertex will be used as reference for macro
>> application. To finish macro definition press Ctrl-M and enter macro name.
>> > To perform macro select it in the listbox, and then Alt-Left Click or
>> Alt-Right Click a point in some cell (cell should be of the same kind as in
>> macro definition). Program finds the best match to the reference point and
>> perfroms macro (left click for the straight order and right click for
>> reverse).
>> > 4) All puzzle definitions are collected in one file MPUlt_puzzles.txt.
>> There is also some puzzles grouping in this file that is reflected in the
>> Puzzle menu.
>> >
>> > Known bugs and missing features:
>> > - Twist counter doesn’t work;
>> > - Track bar position for view angle is not synchronized with the actual
>> value in start
>> > - Check boxes for selection of visible stickers don’t work
>> > - No macros for 5D and more
>> > - Highlighting of the piece is vanishing after multiclick twist
>> (not-cell-twist or 5D and more).
>> > - Help text doesn’t fit actual functioning
>> >
>> > For the debugging I’ll use 24-cell. So, good luck!
>> > Andrey
>> >