Message #2800
From: andreyastrelin@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: MagicTile {∞,3} solutions
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 05:09:40 -0700
Roice,
{10,3} 18C is non-oriented! So it has 36-color twin: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ed8wm202e9t7d4/%7B10%2C3%7D%2036C.xml https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ed8wm202e9t7d4/%7B10%2C3%7D%2036C.xml
As for EndRotation: look at this picture: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zyjhd5o88na810t/Screenshot%202013-10-28%2011.51.54.png https://www.dropbox.com/s/zyjhd5o88na810t/Screenshot%202013-10-28%2011.51.54.png
We start from white face, go to green, make 2 turns CCW, go to yellow, make 3 turns CCW, return to white. What should we do next? I thought that EndRotation should return us back to white-green edge (where we started - in this case it should be 2. Or may be 8, because we are on the mirrored face - but not 1), but it looks that it does something else. What does its value mean in this case?
Andrey
—In 4d_cubing@yahoogroups.com, <roice3@…> wrote:
Yes, thanks Andrey! I will add these to the standard MagicTile distribution in the next few days. I’m going to configure some additional slicings on them first so we can have a bunch of puzzles to play on these new colorings (luckily, those are much easier to setup than finding working colorings).
I didn’t follow your question "So starting edge for "EndRotation" is unpredictable?". The EndRotation is applied to the tile after all the reflections have been done, and it affects all edges equally. The number here doesn’t signify an edge index. It specifies a rotation angle (the entered value multiplied by 2π/p). If this doesn’t clarify, can you describe more what you are asking?
Cheers,
Roice
On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 8:03 PM, Melinda Green <melinda@… mailto:melinda@…> wrote:
Great work, Andrey!
It looks to me like your 18-color puzzle is non-orientable (not "non-oriented") just like your 6-color puzzle. Readers should be aware that it’s extremely easy to add puzzles like these into MT. Just drop the XML files into the "MagicTile\config\user" folder.
-Melinda
On 10/28/2013 4:14 PM, andreyastrelin@… mailto:andreyastrelin@… wrote:
Hi Roice,
Thank you, now it makes sense. So starting edge for "EndRotation" is unpredictable?
I made four puzzles based on {10,3}. Three of them are copies of spherical and hemispherical puzzles and one (18 colors) looks like new one. Configuration files are here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/j32xshxy0nefk46/%7B10%2C3%7D.zip https://www.dropbox.com/s/j32xshxy0nefk46/%7B10%2C3%7D.zip
Andrey
—In 4d_cubing@yahoogroups.com mailto:4d_cubing@yahoogroups.com, <roice3@…> mailto:roice3@… wrote:
Hi Andrey,
Sorry for the delay. I was camping this weekend and disconnected from the interwebs.
To find working values, I looked at your file and compared your coloring configuration to the one for the hemidodecahedron. Two tags needed to be changed: "UseMirroredEdgeSet" needed to be set to false. That is true by default, but I’ve noticed it generally must be false for non-orientable puzzles. The hemidodec also had "EndRotation" = 1. Here is a working file, which only differs from your file by those two tags:
http://www.gravitation3d.com/magictile/4d_cubing/%7B10,3%7D%206C%20edited.xml http://www.gravitation3d.com/magictile/4d_cubing/%7B10,3%7D%206C%20edited.xml
I wanted to note that there was one required alteration to the hemidodecahedron coloring config. The elliptic puzzle had "InitialEdgeSet" = 1, but for the hyperbolic puzzle, this needed be left as the default (initial reflections across all edges) so it could fill out the whole plane. It is so interesting how the spherical puzzles can be expanded to hyperbolic tilings.
Hope this helps!
Roice
On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 12:41 PM, <andreyastrelin@… mailto:andreyastrelin@…> wrote:
Roice,
can you help me with this example: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bkb1runsvpyzooh/%7B10%2C3%7D%206C.xml https://www.dropbox.com/s/bkb1runsvpyzooh/%7B10%2C3%7D%206C.xml ?
It gives correct pattern of white faces, but keeps saying that all other tiles have the same color. But there should be 6 different colors (it’s hemidodecahedron expanded to {10,3}). I tried different values of EndRotation, but they don’t help. What do I do wrong?
Andrey
—In 4d_cubing@yahoogroups.com mailto:4d_cubing@yahoogroups.com, <roice3@…> mailto:roice3@… wrote:
Here is the documentation page for configuring colorings (made for Eduard a while back):
http://www.gravitation3d.com/magictile/info/identifications.html http://www.gravitation3d.com/magictile/info/identifications.html
I’ll be the first to admit that creating new colorings is not the easiest thing. I’m happy to answer questions though, or to discuss how it might be improved.
Cheers,
Roice
On Oct 24, 2013, at 11:39 PM, Melinda Green <melinda@… mailto:melinda@…> wrote:
OK, good to know, thanks Andrey. It surprises me a bit that puzzles with more colors are harder. That seems counter to the pattern where for example, the Rubik’s cube with 6 colors seems harder than the Megaminx with 12. Hopefully Roice will jump in with additional documentation on his puzzle file format. I would like to see what sort of fascinating new puzzles you come up with.
-Melinda
On 10/24/2013 4:46 PM, andreyastrelin@… mailto:andreyastrelin@… wrote:
Melinda, I’ve solved some of puzzles a couple of months ago, but there was nothing new for me - just versions of tetrahedron and cube. For something new we should try new coloring (with 12,24,36 colors etc.). Unfortunately I don’t understand Roice’s notation of puzzle definition, and can’t add good puzzles to MT.
Andrey
—In 4d_cubing@yahoogroups.com mailto:4d_cubing@yahoogroups.com, <melinda@…> mailto:melinda@… wrote:
Dear Cubists,
It’s been a while now since Roice added several (approximately) infinite
polygons to Magic Tile under "Hyperbolic > Large Polygons", and I’ve not
seen or heard of any solutions to the ones with more than three colors.
Has anyone done that? Even with 5 random twists I find myself hopelessly
lost, but then I’m not a strong solver. These new puzzles sure look
fabulous. How do they compare to the rest?
-Melinda
On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 12:41 PM, <andreyastrelin@… mailto:andreyastrelin@…> wrote:
Roice,
can you help me with this example: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bkb1runsvpyzooh/%7B10%2C3%7D%206C.xml https://www.dropbox.com/s/bkb1runsvpyzooh/%7B10%2C3%7D%206C.xml ?
It gives correct pattern of white faces, but keeps saying that all other tiles have the same color. But there should be 6 different colors (it’s hemidodecahedron expanded to {10,3}). I tried different values of EndRotation, but they don’t help. What do I do wrong?
Andrey
—In 4d_cubing@yahoogroups.com mailto:4d_cubing@yahoogroups.com, <roice3@…> mailto:roice3@… wrote:
Here is the documentation page for configuring colorings (made for Eduard a while back):
http://www.gravitation3d.com/magictile/info/identifications.html http://www.gravitation3d.com/magictile/info/identifications.html
I’ll be the first to admit that creating new colorings is not the easiest thing. I’m happy to answer questions though, or to discuss how it might be improved.
Cheers,
Roice
On Oct 24, 2013, at 11:39 PM, Melinda Green <melinda@… mailto:melinda@…> wrote:
OK, good to know, thanks Andrey. It surprises me a bit that puzzles with more colors are harder. That seems counter to the pattern where for example, the Rubik’s cube with 6 colors seems harder than the Megaminx with 12. Hopefully Roice will jump in with additional documentation on his puzzle file format. I would like to see what sort of fascinating new puzzles you come up with.
-Melinda
On 10/24/2013 4:46 PM, andreyastrelin@… mailto:andreyastrelin@… wrote:
Melinda, I’ve solved some of puzzles a couple of months ago, but there was nothing new for me - just versions of tetrahedron and cube. For something new we should try new coloring (with 12,24,36 colors etc.). Unfortunately I don’t understand Roice’s notation of puzzle definition, and can’t add good puzzles to MT.
Andrey
—In 4d_cubing@yahoogroups.com mailto:4d_cubing@yahoogroups.com, <melinda@…> mailto:melinda@… wrote:
Dear Cubists,
It’s been a while now since Roice added several (approximately) infinite
polygons to Magic Tile under "Hyperbolic > Large Polygons", and I’ve not
seen or heard of any solutions to the ones with more than three colors.
Has anyone done that? Even with 5 random twists I find myself hopelessly
lost, but then I’m not a strong solver. These new puzzles sure look
fabulous. How do they compare to the rest?
-Melinda