Message #1972

From: Eduard <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Subject: [MC4D] Re: 24cell FT
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 21:24:03 -0000

Here are some remarks to my 24cell Ft solve.

Treat the cells in a contiguous manner. Allwasy take as next cell a
neighbouring cell.
The strategy is first 96 facecenters, then 96 edges, then 288 facesides,
then 144 subcorners and finally 24 corners.

Facecenters

Two 3-cycle macros c4 and c5.
In 24c FT macros faces
<http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0ALtTqS1Cw3xYK_UKxV9PgC8Tkq-Rz8661F3EV7vNv NWfLgwbJNfZfAVXvspUnLQ2sCHNRO04Taa_gpaNjli2vO8iujAU_IFR6CjzIg/Eduard/24c _FT_macros_faces.dat> .

Edges

macro edg5 = 3-cycle in same cell
macro edg4 = 3-cycle between cells
macro mir22 mirrors an edge on place
In 24c FT macros edges
<http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0ALtTq5Y-7vxYK_Uqw7ze3NaVJxexJWMskZS5TbSvh w5yAt9FJd6iSr6wGGL3gwdhNLAmmiHDbrhytOKuQ54aeq9AMYcN_Kw6cui4MI/Eduard/24c _FT_macros_edges.dat>

Facesides

3-cycle macros between cells: fc22 and fc24
3-cycle macros within cell keeping the color in this cell: fc18 (one
side) and fc21 (two sides)
In 24c FT macros facesides
<http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0ALtTiXbceDxYK_UT8aaRRBjctWteRoD8qegtDeOWL yKAhOC6DHu-zmM3Ekc25TnHt25-X3-OULv1AUmJ_4HCxMkzirK6CCBIb681Ys/Eduard/24c _FT_macros_facesides.dat>

(a)
Collect all correct colored stickers of one cell with the "injectors in
a new cell" fc22 or fc24 without paying attention to the ordering within
this cell. Use fc18 and fc21 in the setup’s.

(b)
Order the stickers in the cell with fc18 and fc21

Subcorners

Two 3-cycle macros sc11 (3584 long) within a cell and sc6t (21714 long)
between neighbouring cells.
In 24c FT macros subcorners
<http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0ALtTgo1AYLxYK_U-OfezCGS5CD_NJvR-2lyMk1DVY KeyYuQXxlLT63QAdAQrEXTBJHdYUAm7juDGPbkpcI7cQzrczG5s6VVYjbfGKE/Eduard/24c _FT_macros_subcorners.dat>

Corners

A wide 3-cycle macro c14 (836 long), a narrow 3-cycle macro c17d (4176
long) and a macro c15 (4176 long) which turns two corners on place.
At the very last I was left with only one corner turned on place. This
showed me that in the contrary to the Rubiks cube one corner alone can
be turned. My macro c23 (58480 long) turns only one corner.
In 24c FT macro corners
<http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0ALtTjJGkrzxYK_UBt9IbUjSE7Yv-farIjNyLUOgEk z28rnyHlQ4CrNA9nKzzKwcjJoh_K9AxZwx7oRcgbW1wozPqtuX1lr4hAyYljI/Eduard/24c _FT_macros_corners.dat>

The most of the 10 million twist are due to sc6t which is 21714 long. I
can certainly find a shorter macro which does the same, but find a short
solve was not my aim.

The elapsed time for my solve is 66 hours.

You can find my macros with pictures in "files / Eduard". R is always
the reference point for the macro. Ignore these files if you don’t want
spoil your pleasure to construct yourself such macros.

Kind regards

— In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard Baumann" <baumann@…> wrote:
>
> Thanks.
>
> Yes, there was a typo. Should be
> …which has no equivalent in 3D.
> instead of
> …which has no equivalent in 4D.
>
> More about my 24c solve will follow.
>
> Kind regards
> Ed
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Melinda Green
> To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 9:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: 24cell FT
>
>
>
> Congratulations, Ed!!!
>
> This was a mighty solution. I got your solution file and unpacked it
just fine. It’s funny because it doesn’t look that big at all when I
scroll around in it but I guess it really does contain 10 million
twists. Let this be a notice to everyone that unless you are attempting
a shortest solution, length does not matter at all. A solution is a
solution however you manage it and you should feel no less proud to make
heavy use of macros you develop.
>
> Yes, the 24-cell is special. When you said it has no equivalent in 4D
I think you mean that it has no analog in any other dimension. 4-space
has the most regular polytopes and this one sits smack in the middle and
is also self-dual so in many ways it is the ultimate regular polytope.
The jewel in the middle of the crown. Of course lots of other polytopes
have special features like the simplexes, 120-cell, Klein’s Quartic,
etc., but if I were a serious puzzle solver I would definitely want to
have conquered this rare and terrible beauty.
>
> So any closing thoughts on your experience? Very few people even
attempt this monster so I’m sure that the rest of us will relish every
word from the intrepid explorers like yourself who wrestle it into
submission.
>
> Congratulations again,
> -Melinda
>
> On 12/16/2011 9:37 AM, Eduard wrote:
>
> I have solved now (as third person) the "24cell FT" with much more
twists (about 10 millions) than Nan and Andrey. So the log file is big:
90MB. I had to zip it before sending it to the 4D cubing group. My log
file
> For me the "24call FT" is the most beautyful of these virtual 4D
twisting puzzles (and similars). It is the only regular convex 4D
polytope which has no equivalent in 4D. The face turning mode is the
most natural one. "24cell FT" is about 5 times more difficult to handle
than the 3x3x3x3 and less lengthy than the 120cell.
>
>
> — In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" baumann@ wrote:
> >
> > I’m still solving with great pleasure the "24cell FT". I have solved
96 2C face centers, 96 3C edges and 96 2C face sides sofar and I’m
approaching the 50% of the puzzle. My move count is 390’000 and the
elapsed time 42h45. Nan has reached 54’000 moves and 9h25 for the whole.
And Andrey is even better. I will use estimated 1 Mio moves to finish. I
think that Nan and Andrey must use external computer program power and
advise or do extremely sophisticated setup’s. Is that so?
> >
> > — In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" baumann@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Work with 3Cs - I have also finished 5 cells of 24. Ed, :)
> > >
> > > — In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey" <andreyastrelin@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I’ve also finished 2C centers. It took about 570 twists (and no
macros at all). Now work with 3Cs - finished 5 cells of 24. Comparing
with 120-cell it looks not difficult at all - but the most interesting
things are still ahead :)
> > > >
> > > > Andrey
> > > >
> > > > — In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" <baumann@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have finished now the 96 2C face centers of the 24cell FT. I
needed 8121 moves compared to the about 800 moves of Nan for the same
thing. This is a little bit frustrating but not enough to stop my
efforts. Now I tackle the 96 3C edges. I have already a 3 cycle. The
same 3 cycle executed 3 times gives a 3 cycle for the 2C face-sides.
> > > > >
> > > > > — In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" <baumann@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have started to solve "24cell FT". Until now only Nan Ma
did it in about 54’000 moves.
> > > > > > Forst I place at home the 2 colored face elements. There are

For 52 faces I needed 5300 moves. Replaying the log file of Nan I
see that he used only about 750 moves for all faces. Most of his moves
are dedicated to place the 2 colored face-corner elements different from
the face elements (13’000 to 54’000).
> > > > > > My technic consists of using a narrow 3 cycle for the faces
and a narrow 2 element flip for faces. I estimate that I will use about
10’000 moves for the faces only.
> > > > > > I observe also when replying Nan’s log file that only the
very first moves show an animation.
> > > > > > Can anybody help me to understand these things? ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>