Message #1682

From: Andrey <>
Subject: MPUlt v0.21 is ready
Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 20:11:01 -0000

Hi, Matt

> Right after sending that last message, I thought I should also look at the
> cryptically-named 24-cell_diag puzzle. That one IS a deepcut cell-turning
> 24Cell. -_- Not sure I agree with naming the other puzzle the deepcut one,
> but I suppose as the inventor of the program that is your call Andrey.

I think that deep-cut puzzle is any puzzle that has pieces not presented in "shallowcut" puzzle. I didn’t examine "deep" 24-cell from this point, but I hope that such pieces exist there.

For other notes check new version - some bugs are fixed there

> But still, open a file and move the "Face Shrink" bar a little ;)

Yes, this bug is fixed. Camera jumps to the original position when you open log file, but now you can see loaded puzzle immediately.

> >
> > -There are multiple pieces in the 24 Cell that are not unique. This is GOOD
> > (and arguably more correct than not) and I am happy to have this version,
> > but my concern is that the program may not recognize a state as solved if
> > two identical pieces are flipped. Have you accounted for this? (I don’t want
> > to finish a solve only to have the program say I’m not done ;) )
> >

Yes, I check only color of stickers in the program. There is no such object as "piece" in the program, everything is done in term of stickers.

> > -Would it be possible to add a piece/location finding feature? I see you
> > have the shift-right click "highlighting" feature and that is certainly a
> > good way to identify pieces but it’s a little awkward to use. A suggestion
> > to improve it a little is to allow shift-right click on a color that is
> > already white to undo the white coloring. (This way, you could hover over a
> > single spot and quickly flash back and forth as you look over the rest of
> > the puzzle, allowing you to very easily see which pieces belong in that face
> > by spotting the flashing)

No, there will be no piecefinding options other than "highlighting". I’ve implemented the feature you asked about, but also I made non-highlighted stickers a little transparent, so now you’ll see white stickers better.

> >
> > -Is there a way to zoom in and out? I notice that the "View Angle" slider
> > bar seems to achieve this, but it is a little awkward to constantly go to
> > the slider bar. Could this be assigned to either a Ctrl-click+drag or
> > perhaps the mouse wheel?
> >
There is Ctrl-Left drag feature that works as 4D zoom (when you move mouse up and down). I’ve added 2D zoom when you move left and right (with ctrl-left button pressed)

> > -Could you add a feature that allows for an automatic view orientation to
> > put a selected cell in the center (like Magic120Cell). I wouldn’t even mind
> > if there was no animation for this, but I find it very awkward to manipulate
> > the puzzle with right-click+drag.

Ok, done. But use right-button+drag and shift-left button+drag is better for improving 4D navigation.

> > -you have a puzzle under CubeBased called 4D_RT: This puzzle is actually
> > quite neat, and I can’t believe I didn’t think of it before. Congratulations
> > on not letting this puzzle slip by unnoticed as I did. Two questions: 1.What
> > does the ‘R’ in 4D_RT mean? (assuming the ‘T’ means turning)

Roice is right here: R is for "Ridge" (2D-face)

> > 2.Could you
> > make the 24 and 16 cell equivalents? :D I can draw a picture of a cell if
> > you need it, but you seem to be quite good at figuring them out yourself so
> > I won’t insult your intelligence with that :) (they would have a pretty
> > crowded view wouldn’t they? Perhaps it is too much… :( )

Actually, I don’t draw the picture - all information about the puzzle is in MPUlt_puzzles.txt file. Edge- and ridge-turn 16-cell is easy to write (twist groups for them are the same as in 8-cell), but with 24-cell I’ll have to imagine and describe group of twists for rigde and for edge. I’ll do it in its time.

> >
> > - (idea/suggestion) It is actually possible to make a subgroup puzzle of
> > the cell-turning 24cell puzzle BY ONLY ALLOWING 120 DEGREE FACE TURNS AND
> > 180 DEGREE CORNER TURNS. No 90 degree corner turns and no edge turns of any
> > kind. Among other things, this will divide the 96 2C central face pieces
> > into 3 orbits of 32 each. This puzzle would be completely different from and
> > most likely significantly harder than the standard cell-turning 24Cell. It
> > occurred to me that it would probably pretty easy to implement if you
> > already have a working cell-turning 24Cell so you can add one more puzzle to
> > the list :) I think you can also do a similar thing with cell turning 8cells
> > (rotations around corners and 180 degree rotations around faces ONLY) and
> > cell turning 16-cells (edge turns ONLY). In fact, you could probably even
> > make one of these "subgroup" puzzles from that interesting 4D_RT puzzle
> > (which thinking about it really should be called face-turning while all the
> > other puzzle should be called cell-turning). If you picture the moving parts
> > of the puzzle as flattened rectangular prisms, only 180 degree rotations
> > about any axis perpendicular to a face are allowed (as is 2 axes are already
> > restricted to 180 degrees, but to make this subgroup puzzle you would have
> > to restrict the third as well)

Some "alternated" puzzles are included in the list (they are marked as (alt)). I’m not sure that only twists from subgroups are possible there, so if you find the error, tell me.
"Alternated" 3^4 has no edge-centered twists of its cells, so when you click in the edge, program will find vertex or center of face closest to the click point, and use it as rotational axis.

Good luck!